[bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

Wed Jul 7 13:42:22 EDT 2021

Well that is an easy thing to do…..Club Member Mike Raisbeck IS an attorney.

Gary F.

Chelmsford Creamery, Inc.  Chelmsford, MA    chelmsfordcreamery.com

Ice Cream College – classes in Massachusetts and Florida        icecreamcollege.com

From: bars <bars-bounces at w1hh.org> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Feldman
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 1:34 PM
To: 'Gary Frascarelli' <gary at garyfrascarelli.com>; 'Dana' <dana at djlsystems.com>; 'Tom Walsh' <k1tw at comcast.net>; 'Jim Idelson' <jim at k1ir.com>; 'William Smith' <w_smith at compusmiths.com>
Cc: 'BARS Reflector' <bars at w1hh.org>
Subject: Re: [bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

Speaking as someone who has been a SCUBA instructor and instructor trainer the answer to your question Gary is: EVERYBODY, especially those who lead the group during the time at issue.  This is a paraphrase of the training provided to us in what is a commercial activity that could get very litigious.  Speaking as a development engineer at Digital, same answer.  I personally know of a salaried engineer whose property and wages were attached by a customer simply because someone didn’t like what he was doing with the COBOL language.  Another engineer stole plans for a product, provided them to another company and was enjoyed by a court from doing anything with a computer including going to school for five years.   That last incident the company made quite public in the engineering community. The object of that lesson was – screw us and we bite.  “Injunctive relief” in a Non-disclosure agreement is something to understand.

However, all that is not a reason for concern.

No Lawyer ever is going to sue unless they believe they can personally profit by it. Even prosecutors don’t prosecute unless they are fairly certain that they can win.  Whoever makes the decision and acts upon it is liable, if there is liability.  There is also a common belief that anyone who writes up a lawsuit complaint gets their day in court. This is false.  Judges often deny suits as lacking merit and not worth the courts time.   

Here I am not certain but I believe that there are laws in Massachusetts specifically against recording conversations without the permission of all who participate.  That’s where the leaders of BARS and the persons conducting a problematic meeting could be exposed.  This type of legal principle does not exist in every state.   I also believe that the law does not become relevant until the recording is shared or sharing is threatened.  Security recordings are not shared unless required by law enforcement also there are usually signs to the effect that security cameras are in use. (in case you are wondering).   Call 911 and the first thing out of their mouth is “This call is being recorded …” 

I think Tom Walsh makes a good point.  Anyone who regrets something said can request the call be deleted?  Hmmm.   I personally think it’s fine if attendees are told that it’s being recorded. They then have the option to say “no”.  Nobody does? Then I think it Is compliant even if they later regret their words.

I am not a lawyer but I would not dismiss this as a real issue without talking to one first.

Regards

Geoff

W1GCF

From: bars [mailto:bars-bounces at w1hh.org] On Behalf Of Gary Frascarelli
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 12:43 PM
To: 'Dana'; 'Tom Walsh'; 'Jim Idelson'; 'William Smith'
Cc: 'BARS Reflector'
Subject: Re: [bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

What are they going to get from BARS if they sue?  A beat up coffee pot, an old tent and a few tables?

Gary Frascarelli, Landscape Artist – Chelmsford, MA

www.garyfrascarelli.com <http://www.garyfrascarelli.com> 

From: bars <bars-bounces at w1hh.org <mailto:bars-bounces at w1hh.org> > On Behalf Of Dana
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 12:02 PM
To: Tom Walsh <k1tw at comcast.net <mailto:k1tw at comcast.net> >; Jim Idelson <jim at k1ir.com <mailto:jim at k1ir.com> >; William Smith <w_smith at compusmiths.com <mailto:w_smith at compusmiths.com> >
Cc: BARS Reflector <bars at w1hh.org <mailto:bars at w1hh.org> >
Subject: Re: [bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

I’m only chiming in because my employer recently banned all recording of online meetings… The liability issues are extensive and fuzzy and I’m no lawyer...

The mindset that we’re being told we should have is that anyone outside the org can potentially obtain recorded content and do malicious things with any info said by any of the participants… So if someone accidently mentioned their address, phone number, any personally identifiable info, who is doing what business with whom, personal info of loved ones, etc… this info can potentially be used to do bad things.

There is prob not much liability on the club… especially since there are no substantial assets to be had… but that doesn’t stop someone from suing participants or anyone with assets… Anyone can sue anyone about anything… and obviously that happens all the time these days.

That said… I’ll be a happy participant in the zoom meeting, but prob won’t say much 😊

From: Tom Walsh <mailto:k1tw at comcast.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 11:33 AM
To: Jim Idelson <mailto:jim at k1ir.com> ; William Smith <mailto:w_smith at compusmiths.com> 
Cc: BARS Reflector <mailto:bars at w1hh.org> 
Subject: Re: [bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

The only problem I see with recording is if something occurred during a meeting that shouldn’t have been recorded. 

And Zoom allows  BARS  to delete recordings anytime we wish.  Such as after a period when folks who couldn’t attend live have the chance to watch the meeting.  

Most privacy concerns are probably about what data is collected on participants by advertisers and internet companies.  That shouldn’t be affected by the mere fact of a  recording as that data is available just from your live attendance. 

I too hope we record tonight’s meeting. Great speaker!

Tom K1TW

From: Jim Idelson <jim at k1ir.com <mailto:jim at k1ir.com> > 
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 11:14 AM
To: William Smith <w_smith at compusmiths.com <mailto:w_smith at compusmiths.com> >
Cc: Thomas Walsh <k1tw at comcast.net <mailto:k1tw at comcast.net> >; BARS Reflector <bars at w1hh.org <mailto:bars at w1hh.org> >
Subject: Re: [bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

The benefits of allowing people to watch later far outweigh any risks. You can decide how broadly you want to share access to the recorded content.

73 Jim K1IR

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 7:44 AM William Smith <w_smith at compusmiths.com <mailto:w_smith at compusmiths.com> > wrote:

I don't think there's any one specific person who is concerned, it feels like the Board is concerned that there might be, and in today's world of legitimate privacy concerns, the easy solution is not to record the meetings.

Since these recordings may live forever and gain a wide audience, I'd probably want a prominent warning, so I could use a Zoom background that would hide my shack.  But then I should sanitize QRZ and Facebook and everything else I do online.  #RatHole

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Jul 7, 2021, at 7:37 AM, Jim Idelson <jim at k1ir.com <mailto:jim at k1ir.com> > wrote:

I just asked if I could watch a recording of tonight's presentation later since I have another commitment. Management has decided not to record due to privacy concerns. Who's concerned?

73 Jim K1IR

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 7:11 AM William Smith <w_smith at compusmiths.com <mailto:w_smith at compusmiths.com> > wrote:

I suspect the new normal is going to be a blending of all those options.  I've been enjoying the 'Breakfast Zoom' meetings, but I'm unlikely to get up early enough to get Presentable, drive 1/2 hour each way, just to have almost the same experience (with my Good Friend Google on the tiny screen instead of one of my monitors).  But that's me.  But then I _like_ discussing the advantages of CW while videoconferencing.  8*)

Oh, wait, I just checked out their breakfast menu.  Eggs Benedict.  Maybe I'll rethink this.  8*)

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Jul 6, 2021, at 11:38 PM, Thomas Walsh <k1tw at comcast.net <mailto:k1tw at comcast.net> > wrote:

Why the hurry?  

If we learned anything it’s  that zoom meetings Zoom meetings work great. No traffic to contend with. Besides, the Church is always hot in summer as no A/c. 

We get more member interaction with the speaker and each other over zoom. We get greater attendance. Members from VT, NC and other states can participate. Members from other clubs also often join also. 

The Board should thoroughly discuss. One idea might be to plan in person member gatherings around specific events like Breakfasts, Field Day, kit builds, classes, and B-B-Q’s and continue seeking out great speakers for monthly zoom meetings. Just some ideas. 

On Jul 6, 2021, at 6:34 PM, Gary's Ice Cream <gary at garysicecream.com <mailto:gary at garysicecream.com> > wrote:

When are we going back to in person meetings – it is time.

Gary F.

Chelmsford Creamery, Inc.  Chelmsford, MA    chelmsfordcreamery.com <http://chelmsfordcreamery.com/> 

Ice Cream College – classes in Massachusetts and Florida        icecreamcollege.com <http://icecreamcollege.com/> 

From: bars <bars-bounces at w1hh.org <mailto:bars-bounces at w1hh.org> > On Behalf Of Bruce Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 4:01 PM
To: bars at w1hh.org <mailto:bars at w1hh.org> 
Subject: [bars] Bars Meeting Tomorrow Night

This is your link to the BARS Monthly ZOOM meeting 

Topic: “Programs Helping Hams to Develop New Skills and Get On The Air” By  Fred Kemmerer, AB1OC  

Time: Jul 7, 2021 07:00 PM EDST

Join Zoom Meeting

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82244842441?pwd=S3N6ZEJRZXZQejhwVE5HK3VnSFAxZz09

Meeting ID: 822 4484 2441

Passcode: 177430

Bruce

W1LUS

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