[bars] GMRS

Fri Oct 11 09:35:07 CDT 2024

Thanks Stephen for posting the GMRS specifics from the "source".  The 2W I
referred to is from the 2017 updated rules which extended the sharing of
channels between FRS and GMRS, and applies to FRS radios on a subset of
the now-shared channels.  If you use FRS ("license-free"/by-type) with
family and friends, this is one of the gotchas: some channels operate at 2W
and others at 0.5W (presuming a recent radio programmed for the new limits)
- on a bubble-pack radio the user may have no indication but some channels
will be "stronger" than others...

Adam / AA1N

>From Wikipedia:
In May 2017, the FCC significantly revised the rules for combination
FRS/GMRS radios. Combination radios will be permitted to radiate up to 2
watts on 15 of the 22 channels (as opposed to 0.5 watts), and all FRS
channels are now considered shared with the GMRS service. Operation over 2
watts, or operation on GMRS repeater input channels, will still require
GMRS licensing. The FCC will not certify combination FRS/GMRS radios that
exceed the current power limits for the FRS service.[1]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service#cite_note-FCC-GMRS-FRS-Reform-2017-1>

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 9:53 AM Stephen Crook <scrook at comcast.net> wrote:

> Here are the current rules for GMRS
>
> https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E?toc=1
>
> Including channels (FRS = interstitial) and power limits:
>
> § 95.1763 GMRS channels.
>
> The GMRS is allotted 30 channels—16 main channels and 14 interstitial
> channels. GMRS stations may transmit on any of the channels as indicated
> below.
>
> (a) 462 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, repeater,
> base and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. The channel
> center frequencies are: 462.5500, 462.5750, 462.6000, 462.6250, 462.6500,
> 462.6750, 462.7000, and 462.7250 MHz.
>
> (b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable and
> base stations may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center
> frequencies are: 462.5625, 462.5875, 462.6125, 462.6375, 462.6625,
> 462.6875, and 462.7125 MHz.
>
> (c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and
> fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable
> and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating
> through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance
> with § 95.319(c)
> <https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-95.319#p-95.319(c)>. The
> channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250,
> 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.
>
> (d) 467 MHz interstitial channels. Only hand-held portable units may
> transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5625,
> 467.5875, 467.6125, 467.6375, 467.6625, 467.6875, and 467.7125 MHz.
>
> § 95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.
>
> This section contains transmitting power limits for GMRS stations. The
> maximum transmitting power depends on which channels are being used and the
> type of station.
>
> (a) 462/467 MHz main channels. The limits in this paragraph apply to
> stations transmitting on any of the 462 MHz main channels or any of the 467
> MHz main channels. Each GMRS transmitter type must be capable of operating
> within the allowable power range. GMRS licensees are responsible for
> ensuring that their GMRS stations operate in compliance with these limits.
>
> (1) The transmitter output power of mobile, repeater and base stations
> must not exceed 50 Watts.
>
> (2) The transmitter output power of fixed stations must not exceed 15
> Watts.
>
> (b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of
> mobile, hand-held portable and base stations transmitting on the 462 MHz
> interstitial channels must not exceed 5 Watts.
>
> (c) 467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of
> hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels
> must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of
> transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not
> exceed 0.5 Watts.
>
>
> = Steve — KB1LKR =
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 11, 2024, at 9:07 AM, David Marcucci <dmarcucci at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> I got my GMRS license while waiting to test for my tech license, WRYP866.
> I am in a group that is more than just amateur radio folks, they do
> GMRS/FRS, Meshtastic, Mesh WiFi, and amateur radio. People I talk to like
> GMRS because there is no test and the license applies to the whole family.
> Many folks who are there with GMRS have a family with acres of land or they
> camp, hike, and/or offroad where they use GMRS (or FRS even) and seem
> happy. We use it as a gateway drug into amateur radio and suggest that
> adults get their tech license too. I hear there are lots of GMRS repeaters
> that are not publicized but none are really near me.
>
> I also own the Tidradio TD-H3 because I wanted to try the "app-based
> Bluetooth programming". Short version, it works but it's a pretty crappy
> experience. Instead, I used Chirp to set up a few different configurations
> for different QTHs for ham bands, pubic service monitoring, and GMRS. I
> then "saved" them into my phone so I could quickly swap out configs with
> just my phone and radio. I like the USB battery charging too. My only
> advice is to spend a little more and get the H8 with the bigger battery,
> body/buttons, and output power unless space is a premium and you don't have
> big fingers. I carry it in my car but usually have my Anytone 878 too so I
> don't often use it.
>
> 73,
> Dave
> KC1TLF
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 8:39 AM Adam Smith <asmith at netspace.org> wrote:
>
>> There have been a couple of changes over a decade or two, to the FRS and
>> GMRS rules.
>>
>> I believe that at this point FRS handhelds are limited to 2 watts (the
>> table shared earlier being from an earlier version when they were 0.5W) and
>> GMRS handhelds are limited to 5W.  Both are required to have a fixed
>> antenna (at least nominally, as noted) and to come out of the box with
>> channels preprogrammed. The GMRS 50W applies to base/mobile style units, I
>> think, which would include repeaters.  One idea is that you could have a
>> higher power unit at a campsite or in a vehicle, which could be a repeater
>> too(?).  Not sure how much coordination there is for repeaters.
>>
>> I have a TIDRADIO TD-H3, purchased as a ham unit and it enforces
>> appropriate band edges (2m, 70cm).  It has FCC certification.  The firmware
>> can be reloaded into GMRS mode, but then must be reconfigured (or an
>> unlocked mode, which is called NORMAL, tellingly).  Operating it on GMRS is
>> probably at the edge of legality/technicalities of the rules but they do
>> sell a GMRS version which seems to be just the software config changed.  I
>> am not a communications lawyer ;).  Since it is 5W and I don't think FRS
>> certified, I would say you need a GMRS license at least.  I believe GMRS
>> stations can interact with FRS on the shared freqs, but presumably must
>> still identify etc.
>>
>> The TD-H3 (ham version) is a neat little unit.  I had to send one back
>> which didn't have good output power, but second one (Amazon free
>> replacement including shipping) works.  It is USB-C chargeable and
>> programmable with CHIRP over USB-C.  You can clone wirelessly between
>> units.  It receives FM broadcast and Airband.  You can catch them on sale
>> for under $35.
>>
>> 73,
>> Adam / AA1N
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 6:50 PM Juan Jiménez <k1cpr at bd5.com> wrote:
>>
>>> HA! I I found a better solution! Menu 28, "Voice" turn to OFF. :)
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> K1CPR
>>> Juan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 6:45 PM Juan Jiménez <k1cpr at bd5.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just wish I could find out how to change the silly voice on the radio
>>>> of the young chinese girl trying to speak english with a heavy accent. Not
>>>> giving voice options like Garmin does was a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> K1CPR
>>>> Juan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 6:06 PM cprestia <cprestia at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Come to think of it I think I paid the 70 bucks.  It was changing
>>>>> literally within days of their departure, but I couldn't wait because they
>>>>> were leaving.
>>>>>
>>>>> No matter, it was worth it to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>> W1CEP
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>> From: Christopher Lennon <kwaj.speedo at gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: 10/10/24 13:42 (GMT-05:00)
>>>>> To: Juan Jiménez <k1cpr at bd5.com>
>>>>> Cc: BARS CLUB BROADCAST <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [bars] GMRS
>>>>>
>>>>> I have thought about getting a GMRS radio, and figured that if I did I
>>>>> would buy two.  One for me and one for my unlicensed cousin to use when we
>>>>> were doing stuff together.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris W2BPL
>>>>> Sent from my phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 12:57 PM Juan Jiménez <k1cpr at bd5.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I got the Wouxon KG-935G because it has high reviews on eHam. It is
>>>>>> heavier than my QRZ-1 HT and comes with two antennas. So far I think it
>>>>>> will become the black sheep of my herd, useful only in special occasions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 12:09 geoffreyf--- via bars <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did get a pair of radio oddity GM-30 GMRS HT's.  These have all
>>>>>>> channels which include the ones which do 5 watts and therefore require the
>>>>>>> license which I also got.  I was curious.  They are physically lighter in
>>>>>>> weight compared to Ham HT's and less well built physically than even a
>>>>>>> Baofeng.  Supposedly you are not allowed to change antennas from the rubber
>>>>>>> ducky that comes with it. However, and on the ones, I got, with a small
>>>>>>> Allen wrench you can unlock the provided antenna to discover that it works
>>>>>>> with a male SMA antenna.  In fact, it works similarly on the 5-watt
>>>>>>> channels.  For simply calling another radio simplex, it is pretty good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   We can argue if it's just as good.  I'll offer that it probably
>>>>>>> isn't, but my testing was superficial. I do think radios should be
>>>>>>> evaluated in the context of what they cost.   If you go on a trip with
>>>>>>> unlicensed friends or family, it might actually be useful.   While driving
>>>>>>> home, they can read the tech license manual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Geoff W1GCF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* bars <bars-bounces at w1hh.org> on behalf of Bill Poulin <
>>>>>>> billpoulin01913 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2024 11:44 AM
>>>>>>> *To:* cprestia <cprestia at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> *Cc:* BARS CLUB BROADCAST <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [bars] GMRS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have not applied for a GMRS License nor have I ever thought of
>>>>>>> buying a radio for GMRS operations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do know some families that have for hunting and backpacking. I
>>>>>>> have even given them ham radio license manuals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 10:01 AM cprestia via bars <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, 35 bucks.  I stand corrected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>>>> From: Stephen Crook <scrook at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> Date: 10/10/24 09:17 (GMT-05:00)
>>>>>>> To: cprestia <cprestia at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> Cc: John Schulman <john.schulman at comcast.net>, Christopher Lennon <
>>>>>>> kwaj.speedo at gmail.com>, BARS CLUB BROADCAST <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [bars] GMRS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is (as of 2017) now only $35 and is good for 10 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You must be 18 or older to apply, but family members (licensee's
>>>>>>> spouse, children, grandchildren, stepchildren, parents, grandparents,
>>>>>>> stepparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and
>>>>>>> in-laws), regardless of age, can operate stations within the
>>>>>>> licensed system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could be an easy, useful method of local family communication and
>>>>>>> superior to unlicensed FRS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         = Steve — KB1LKR =
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 10, 2024, at 8:38 AM, cprestia via bars <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the license is/was 70 Clams and covered the fam for 10
>>>>>>> years if I'm not mistaken.  We'll worth it if you have peeps that don't
>>>>>>> want to pursue amateur radio level comes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh yeah, hello neighbor NIECC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73 PEEPS!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>> W1CEP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>>>> From: John Schulman via bars <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> Date: 10/10/24 08:27 (GMT-05:00)
>>>>>>> To: Christopher Lennon <kwaj.speedo at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Cc: BARS CLUB BROADCAST <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [bars] GMRS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I paid for the license online and bought a couple radios for camp.
>>>>>>> GMRS is 50W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> W1MVD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 10, 2024, at 2:17 AM, Christopher Lennon <
>>>>>>> kwaj.speedo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The low end aren’t super expensive.  I don’t know the details of the
>>>>>>> licensing, but I think if they were using them in a group with you, only
>>>>>>> you would need to be licensed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris W2BPL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2024 at 10:45 PM Christopher Wood <
>>>>>>> christopher.wood at firelinkllc.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is my proposed use case, although I have not yet implemented it
>>>>>>> (GMRS) .. To have a radio with which to communicate with my grandchildren a
>>>>>>> couple of miles away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No licensing test, so we can each get a license and then I can get
>>>>>>> them a radio and have a radio here at home. I think that might be fun and
>>>>>>> maybe interest them in future radio development and moving forward to other
>>>>>>> projects like ham radio balloon tracking or tracking satellite beacons, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I'll try to do this for Christmas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> Christopher
>>>>>>> KC1GHR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* bars <bars-bounces at w1hh.org> on behalf of Verhulst via bars
>>>>>>> <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2024 10:23 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* BARS CLUB BROADCAST <bars at w1hh.org>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [bars] GMRS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good question. I bought one thinking that it might be something like
>>>>>>> VHF/UHF but there's nobody on that I can find. Repeaters near me
>>>>>>> (Tewksbury) are not to be found. There's one in Wilmington but never heard
>>>>>>> anything there. If you have a group of people and all have GMRS, that would
>>>>>>> be useful - but so would CB.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73s
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>> W1DYS
>>>>>>> WRXD549
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/1/2024 8:21 AM, Juan Jiménez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking at the specs for GMRS radios, it seems like it's a fancier
>>>>>>> version of FRS with a little more power, ability to use repeaters and need
>>>>>>> to get a license without any tests involved. For what purpose do people use
>>>>>>> these radios?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>>> K1CPR
>>>>>>> Juan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> bars mailing list
>>>>>>> bars at w1hh.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> bars mailing list
>>>>>>> bars at w1hh.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> bars mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> bars mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> bars mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> bars mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
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