<style>@font-face{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}</style><font face="Calibri"><p dir="ltr">Not to pour gasoline on this blaze, but I have been reading the mail on this QSO with interest since I am about to put up an antenna for HF and operate on the lower frequencies for the first time.</p>
<p dir="ltr">So I appreciate the information. I may take a few shortcuts in my installation, but at least I now understand what rules I am breaking by doing so.</p>
<p dir="ltr">As I understand it, there are two reasons for grounding: managing RF and protection against lightning strike. The lightning protection requires a quality ground capable of handling high current. The RF management requires less current but needs to be physically close (<=1/4 wave). Is this correct?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Me ke aloha<br>
-- Marla</p>
<br><br>On April 30, 2023, at 21:42, Geoffrey Feldman <geoffreyf@comcast.net> wrote:<br><br><br></font><html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>No it doesn’t. Yes there is an issue. Yes there are people working on changing it – but you didn’t read that either. Do you have a solution to propose which builds on the work of others? Didn’t mention it or think of it did you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The answers you got on a PUBLIC thread took time to answer. The subject is more complex than you appear to have expected. The effort to write it was not for you alone. It’s for anyone else who may be thinking about a very typical, not very exotic problem which many have, not just you. It’s also a way for us to hone our explanations to be more effective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you learn the subject on your own, you may realize that actually you got a pretty good succinct answer from several different perspectives. You got something of value that took time to provide and which you did not appreciate. That’s a risk one takes in writing an answer but then you went off on the membership tangent (AGAIN).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Don’t be surprised if you don’t get answers again.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NEARFest was actually pretty well attended. Most of it happens on Friday. A lot of stuff was sold by Saturday evening. Did you go to any of the seminars? There were some good ones. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“Have a nice day?” How have you added to it? Condescension? Don’t tell others how to suck eggs – that’s lesson one on not condescending. People spent time giving you the help we honestly thought you needed and this was your response. What’s the next complaint? Nobody helps? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>W1GCF Geoff<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> KC1SOZ [mailto:<a href="mailto:kc1soz@bd5.com">kc1soz@bd5.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 30, 2023 7:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> Geoffrey Feldman<br><b>Cc:</b> matthew sapienza; Dan Trainor; w1hh<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bars] Ground post<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>And your answer demonstrates <b><u>exactly</u></b> why membership in clubs like these continues to decline, on average of 5-10% a year, straight into oblivion, as evidenced by the average age of those in attendance at this week's show in Deerfield. If you can't answer a question about a ground rod in a simple manner, without being condescending, then it is not me who does not understand it.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Have a nice day.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 5:42 PM Geoffrey Feldman <<a href="mailto:geoffreyf@comcast.net" target="_blank">geoffreyf@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your question shows you do not know what a ground is. You don’t want to know. How can you install something that you don’t understand.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So don’t ask. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You may get lucky, or you may wish you had read a whole book or at least emails that people wrote because THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS whether you like the complexity or not. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“I got this” – no you don’t. Sadder, you don’t want to. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Geoff W1GCF</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> KC1SOZ [mailto:<a href="mailto:kc1soz@bd5.com" target="_blank">kc1soz@bd5.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 30, 2023 5:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> matthew sapienza<br><b>Cc:</b> Dan Trainor; Geoffrey Feldman; w1hh<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bars] Ground post</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Folks, I just want to install a ground, not engage in a federal project requiring me to read a whole book on the subject. The manufacturer does not require counterpoises or anything like that. Just a mast, the antenna, mounting hardware for the u-bolts, the grounding post and strap, and of course the feedline. Even the radials are optional when ground mounting.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/ACC_antenna/Hy-gain_AV-14AVQ_user.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/ACC_antenna/Hy-gain_AV-14AVQ_user.pdf</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks for the input. I got this.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 4:38 PM matthew sapienza via bars <<a href="mailto:bars@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars@w1hh.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I have the same book I definitely helped me with grounding my shack and radio/ amplifier/ tuner and hf mobile radios and antennas <br><br><br><a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-top:0in'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#715FFA'>On Sunday, April 30, 2023, 16:34, Dan Trainor <<a href="mailto:dptrainor@gmail.com" target="_blank">dptrainor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div id="m_1058478651659516273m_1591026911800856751m_375966899518341264m_3264289665232916130yiv4766370897"><div><div><div><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=450 style='width:225.0pt;background:#E5E6E9;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><img border=0 width=300 height=157 id="m_1058478651659516273m_1591026911800856751_x005f_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D97BAC.9ACC4550" alt="41+zyyI-5IL._SR600,315_PIWhiteStrip,BottomLeft,0,35_PIStarRatingFOURANDHALF,BottomLeft,360,-6_SR600,315_ZA76,445,290,400,400,AmazonEmberBold,12,4,0,0,5_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255,255,255.jpg"></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=300 style='width:150.0pt;background:#E5E6E9'><tr><td style='padding:6.0pt 0in 6.0pt 0in'><div style='margin-left:12.0pt;margin-right:12.0pt;max-width:100%;overflow:hidden'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Grounding-Bonding-Radio-Amateur-ARRL-dp-1625951493/dp/1625951493/ref=dp_ob_title_bk" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'>Grounding and Bonding for the Radio Amateur 2nd Edition – Good Practices for Electrical Safety, Lightning Protection, and RF Management</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Grounding-Bonding-Radio-Amateur-ARRL-dp-1625951493/dp/1625951493/ref=dp_ob_title_bk" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'>amazon.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>"<b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'>Proper Station Grounding is Important!</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:10.5pt;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:10.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'>The second edition of <i>Grounding and Bonding for the Radio Amateur</i> introduces you to the current standards for lightning protection and communication systems. You’ll learn effective grounding and bonding techniques for home stations (including condos and apartments), portable and mobile stations, towers, and outdoor antennas. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:10.5pt;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:10.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'>Build your ham radio station using these effective grounding and bonding techniques:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'>AC safety</span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'>: Protect against shock hazards from ac-powered equipment by providing a safe path for current when a fault in wiring or insulation occurs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'><br><b>Lightning protection</b>: Keep all equipment at the same voltage during transients from lightning, and dissipate the lightning’s charge in the Earth, away from equipment.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'><br><b>RF management</b>: Prevent unwanted RF currents and voltages (also known as RF interference or RFI) from disrupting the normal functions of equipment.”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0F1111'>73 de WA1QZX</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div id="m_1058478651659516273m_1591026911800856751m_375966899518341264m_3264289665232916130yiv4766370897yqt17645"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Apr 30, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Geoffrey Feldman <<a href="mailto:geoffreyf@comcast.net" target="_blank">geoffreyf@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div id="m_1058478651659516273m_1591026911800856751m_375966899518341264m_3264289665232916130yiv4766370897yqt87948"><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is no black and white answer. Check antenna performance. Read up on Lightning protection. What I wrote to you is considerably condensed from the ARRL book on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s better to do the extra work and get it right. It’s very good to recognize that not all grounds are the same thing – but you want to think that way? You might get away with it or – you might ruin your rig or burn down your house in a Lightning strike. The choice is still yours.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>DO NOT use the ground for the house electrical system or the cable TV system ALWAYS use your own ground. It’s not OK to use an existing ground for another system – never OK for that.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You still didn’t tell us the wavelength of your antenna. That matters a lot.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Geoff W1GCF</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> KC1SOZ [mailto:<a href="mailto:kc1soz@bd5.com" target="_blank">kc1soz@bd5.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 30, 2023 4:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Geoffrey Feldman<br><b>Cc:</b> w1hh<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bars] Ground post</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>So, 1) is a bad idea, 2) is ok? As I said, the mast would be a metal post buried 8 ft into the ground.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>The antenna in question is one of the Hy-Gain AV-14AVQ's that I bought from Niece (and maybe a second one in a phased array later on.) </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 4:04 PM Geoffrey Feldman <<a href="mailto:geoffreyf@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>geoffreyf@comcast.net</span></a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“Ground” has different meanings. The short answer to your question is: No.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Explanation: In this particular case, what you propose is ill advised. The electrical system ground post is for the electrical system. RF or Lightning that is not absorbed by that post would then go into the residence. Similarly surges from the power distribution system could go to your equipment. Yes, people do this and get away with it but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea or that it’s the same idea at different locales.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you are sure it’s buried 8’ STRAIGHT DOWN into the ground then it’s probably OK for lightning strike management. (However there should be precautions for where the feedline goes into your home but that’s another story.) Where Lightning is concerned there is no perfect solutions just to pray that yours is good enough.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you are asking about an effective counterpoise then it may not be satisfactory. The answer depends on soil conditions where you are but generally wires laid along the ground or just beneath the turf will provide better antenna performance (you didn’t mention the wavelength, so for shorter wave lengths there may be easier but adequate solutions) Measure performance and if in doubt – add more horizontal wires along the ground. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In both cases, what you suggest may not prevent common mode currents returning through the outer conductor of the Coax. This is bad but can be corrected with a choke near the entry point to the house. If the E-field of your antenna doesn’t find a suitable place to complete its circuit (counterpoise or opposite side in a dipole) then it will find other paths. Antenna performance will suffer, impedance will be off etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Back to the word “Ground” – the word is used in other ways such as “equipment ground, a no load safety return for electrical failure (the third prong of a plug). It can mean a comment point that stated voltages in a circuit are measured from. In other radio systems, it can mean a suitable return path for the e-field such as the metal body of a car, a radar dish etc. If you were to sink 8’ ground rods 10 feet apart or so you would likely see voltage between them, pointing out that ground is never absolute, it’s always local.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>By the way, do not use a ground established for the buildings Cable TV service. That can make you super unpopular.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Putting in a new ground can be a lot of fun. When in doubt – do that. Get the standard ground stake sold at Lowes or Home Depot. Get up on a step ladder to start it in. A solid carpenters hammer is enough. It may seem stuck, keep banging and hopefully you will break what it’s stuck on. (Dig safe is a good thing too)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That should do it</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Geoff W1GCF</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bars [mailto:<a href="mailto:bars-bounces@w1hh.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>bars-bounces@w1hh.org</span></a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>KC1SOZ<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 30, 2023 3:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> w1hh<br><b>Subject:</b> [bars] Ground post</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>When putting up a ground-mounted vertical antenna...</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>1) Is it OK to attach the ground strap from one of the u-bolts to the residential grounding post already buried in the ground?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>2) Is a grounding strap strictly necessary if the mast to which the antenna is attached with the u-bolts is itself a metal post buried almost 8 feet into the ground?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>73,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>KC1SOZ</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"New serif","serif"'>Juan</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>bars mailing list<br><a href="mailto:bars@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars@w1hh.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org" target="_blank">http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div id="m_1058478651659516273m_1591026911800856751m_375966899518341264m_3264289665232916130yqt02651"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>bars mailing list<br><a href="mailto:bars@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars@w1hh.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org" target="_blank">http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>bars mailing list<br><a href="mailto:bars@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars@w1hh.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org" target="_blank">http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>