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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Your phone has GPS in it. Any app on the phone can access this information. No need for an internet time server or even actual cell service. Actually the NTP server is the least accurate method.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>GPS modules are cheap. The time from them can be captured in a serial interface of a laptop, RPI or Arduino. GPS time is locally accurate, based on an atomic clock in the bird, even corrected to Nano Seconds for relativistic effects by the GPS software. It comes from a LEO (50 miles) satellite has far less propagation delay than anything over the internet. That propagation delay is corrected in the GPS module based on multiple satellites which transmit their individual ephemerides. For some digital modes, this is a real advantage but also works anywhere that RF can be sent or received (unlike a cell phone connection)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The relativistic effect correction is even based on tables, stored on the bird, of inconsistent gravity effects. Other than a private atomic clock (which tends to be less portable) this is the most accurate time reference available, including over the internet. By the way, distributed databases that use time variant locking use GPS and not NTP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If there is a cell tower, the time on the phone comes from the towers GPS antenna. If you think about it, the entire function of a cell phone is a digital mode that depends on exacting time agreement and uses that for ECCs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Geoff W1GCF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> bars <bars-bounces@w1hh.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Juan Jiménez<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 9, 2023 8:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jonathan Lyna <jonlyna@yahoo.com><br><b>Cc:</b> w1hh <bars@w1hh.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bars] WSJT-X tip<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Most everywhere you don't have wired internet you usually have cellphone coverage. I use the hotspot on my phone to connect to my computer, and it then picks up the time as usual from the NTP server. Since i don't have to pay for the hotspot, I allow others around me to do the same if i am in a group. A GPS puck will do the job, I suppose, but sometimes you are inside and it can be a problem seeing the available GPS satellites in the constellation.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also, most computer hardware clocks these days are VERY accurate. If you sync before you leave home there is little chance the clock will drift any significant value.<br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>73,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>K1CPR<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Juan<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 6:06 AM Jonathan Lyna <<a href="mailto:jonlyna@yahoo.com">jonlyna@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>What about the people that want an external hardware device to sync their clock to something like a GPS satellite (an atomic clock in the sky, instead of an atomic clock at the end of a wire)? A method that uses this would be portable, wouldn't it? Of course you could sync the clock before you head out manually, or have it always "good to go" automatically, but what if you want to synchronize using radio waves, before you FT8 over radio waves? A fully "wireless" solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Could you make a GPS dongle work in these cases?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Jon <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="m_-7345648897325022629ydp2407a523yahoo_quoted_2338829585"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 08:20:09 PM EDT, Juan Jiménez <<a href="mailto:k1cpr@bd5.com" target="_blank">k1cpr@bd5.com</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id="m_-7345648897325022629ydp2407a523yiv7381733232"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Considering that most of our members are older, I think the "set it and forget it" method is much more reasonable than having to remember to sync. It will also help with any other app that requires an accurate clock.<br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>73,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>K1CPR<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Juan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="m_-7345648897325022629ydp2407a523yiv7381733232yqt16350"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:09 PM Christopher Wood <<a href="mailto:christopher.wood@firelinkllc.com" target="_blank">christopher.wood@firelinkllc.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Yes, this method works. However, if you're just an occasional FT-8 (JS8Call, etc.) user (like me), you can skip the regedit method and just sync when necessary through the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Right-click on the clock<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Left-click "Adjust date/time" (usually near the top)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On the Date & time screen (you may have to scroll down a bit) and left-click on the "Sync now" button<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Your clock only needs to be with about 500 msec of UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This site <a href="http://www.time.gov" target="_blank">www.time.gov</a> will give you a good estimate of the difference between your clock and UTC (the system corrects for network delays).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Christopher KC1GHR<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id="m_-7345648897325022629ydp2407a523yiv7381733232m_7729689653681447927divRplyFwdMsg"><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='color:black'> bars <<a href="mailto:bars-bounces@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars-bounces@w1hh.org</a>> on behalf of Juan Jiménez <<a href="mailto:k1cpr@bd5.com" target="_blank">k1cpr@bd5.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 5, 2023 6:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> w1hh <<a href="mailto:bars@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars@w1hh.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [bars] WSJT-X tip</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>One thing FT-8 is sensitive to is your computer's clock, which has to be accurately sync'd with a time server. If you are running on Windows, the default is to update your clock once a week using the NTP protocol and a Microsoft time server. WSJT-X recommends installing software to update more often, but that's not necessary. It's easier to use Regedit. The key to change the auto time sync time interval settings is located at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\TimeProviders\NtpClient<br><br>The key name is <b>SpecialPollInterval </b>and the type is DWORD. The default value is 604800 (decimal) or 0x00093a80 (hexadecimal). That number is the seconds between update. Change the value to 86400 to auto time sync every day. Don't make it much shorter than that or you risk getting blocked for swamping the server with requests. This works on all versions of Windows back to XP.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Windows uses NTP, not SNTP, and you can also change the NTP server it uses here:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\Parameters<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>...in the <b>NTPServer</b> key.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>73, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>K1CPR<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Juan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div id="m_-7345648897325022629ydp2407a523yqt65601"><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>bars mailing list<br><a href="mailto:bars@w1hh.org" target="_blank">bars@w1hh.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org" target="_blank">http://mail.w1hh.org/mailman/listinfo/bars_w1hh.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>